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Hello there, i am new to blacksmithing and wanting to learn all that i can about it. Right now im collecting materials to build a forge, can anyone give me any ideas on building a good forge?
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Re: Building a forge
02/27Hello Wes,
Welcome. This link is probably the best place to start when learning about gas forges, if that's what your interested in:
www.zoellerforge.com/
Lots and lots of info to get lost in. -
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Re: Building a forge
02/27And here:
home.flash.net/~dwwilson/forge/fgpl.html
The forge I built following Plan #1 has been my work horse day-to-day forge for better than ten years. I’d suggest building the burner head out of stainless if you can, but honestly, I used mild steel and its been going for a very long time. Its finally starting to wear down and I’ll probably replace it with a stainless one this summer. -
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Re: Building a forge
03/11not surprised to see le chat here... :D
speaking of, anyone have problems getting diy propane forges to max temp at high altitudes? i figured i would add about a 150 cfm blower to mine since i live in the denver area and the steel only gets to an orangeish yellow for 1" black pipe. its a dual atmospheric burner, even went with a 2" to 3/4" reducer for more air. -
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Re: Building a forge
03/11Increasing the blower velocity won't help and will likely hurt. Your problem is a bad oxygen to fuel ratio which is why increasing the blower velocity can hurt. I don't know the best solution to your problem, but some possible ones are: increase the fuel supply, decrease the blower speed (which can improve the burn efficiency) or add an O2 supply from a tank but that would be the last thing to try as people forged in Denver long before compressed gases were available. -
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Re: Building a forge
03/11Heya Spec!!
Troy,
Wouldn’t adding fuel to an already fuel rich mix make a carburizing flame instead of more heat? Correct me if I am wrong here, as I’ve never had to deal with high altitude forging.
If I were facing such an issue, I think I’d give the larger blower a shot and see what happens. Then you can meter the fuel lower and allow more pressurized air into the forge. If you are controlling your fuel with a needle valve, you can fine tune it easily. Propane forges get more efficient as they get hotter, so you can turn the needle valve down as you need to. Make sure all holes are plugged up and the forge is insulated well.
On a side note: I’ve found on longer forges, a small opening at the back will relieve, if not illuminate, cold spots. -
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Re: Building a forge
03/11"Wouldn’t adding fuel to an already fuel rich mix make a carburizing flame instead of more heat? Correct me if I am wrong here, as I’ve never had to deal with high altitude forging. "
If you really are fuel rich to the point of using all oxygen then yes. However you may actually be fuel poor (oxidizing flame) and think you are fuel poor, something I've seen even at sea level. Most people remember from high school science that hydrocarbons burn to give water and CO2 but that is very simplistic. A reducing flame produces CO and CO2, and results from having more fuel then oxygen but not so much as to have a sooty flame. Reducing flames are hot, hotter in fact then most fuel poor flames.
The right mix of fuel to oxygen, omitting reactions were nitrogen is converted to NOs is between these two chemical equations:
CnH(2n+2) + (n+0.5)O2 -> (n+1)H2O + nCO
CnH(2n+2) + ((3n+1)/2) -> (n+1)H2O + nCO2
where n is the number of carbon in your fuel (these formula don't work for unsaturated hydrocarbons, like acetylene), For propane, n=3, so
you need between 3.5 and 5 moles of oxygen per mole of propane. This works out to be about 17.5 to 25 volumes of air per volume of propane at room temperature and 1 atmosphere of pressure. There are tools to measure gas flow rates and with PV=nRT one can correct for higher pressures, so this isn't an impossible way to approach the problem.
If you are within the right fuel air mixture ranges, then you fuel mix isn't your problem and it is time to look at your forge design. Consider issues like: cold spot due to poor gas flow through the forge, to few burners for the size of the forge and are the burners to far above/below the metal you are trying to heat. -
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Re: Building a forge
03/12Didn't Spec say he was adding a blower to an 'atmospheric' forge? That is a rather different discussion. Spec, have you tried different sized gas orifices? (Almost left out that important modifier >:-D)
I have been less than satisfied with my atmospheric setup. (I had gone atmospheric because I don't like all the noise from forced air burners.) My forge can be adjusted to both reducing and atmosphere at all pressures, so I am calling it a forge design issue rather than a burner issue. -
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Re: Building a forge
03/12Oh, you’re right.
Spectabilis, how were you thinking of incorporating a blower into an atmospheric design? You could need a different approach entirely for this issue.
(for reference the blower on my forges are about 65 cfm and we are at +/- 700 feet). -
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Re: Building a forge
03/12oh, i was thinking the blower would split out into a 'Y', either small diameter metal furnace hose or flexible auto exhaust ones directly connected to the top of the burner heads....
...but i am considering the oxy thing.
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Re: Building a forge
03/12yeah, atmospheric... and HI LECHAT! HI KARINE!
actually i had also considered mounting outlets inside the burner heads for oxy, so that suggestion may win out troy, and i forgot to mention i tried removing the chokes to test unrestricted flow. the flame burns blue, not greenish blue so thats why i thought the mix was alright. but the only way to get up to orange with rebar is to fully open the propane, sounds like a howling rocket.
i think the jets are .035 wirefeed welding tips in the two heads, heads are 2" reducers into 9" long 3/4" dia pipe. then at the flame end i have attached one inch long 1" dia pipe pieces thats flared outward. freon can forge design with double layers of 1" kaowool inside thats coated with itc-100, simple 1/2" thick fireboard on bottom. so the inside chamber measures 4" high by 4.5" wide and 9" long. guess i might take a pic and post it. -
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Re: Building a forge
03/12From your descriptions:
Blue flame = complete burn, so yes you have plenty of O2.
9" long forge: maybe the hot gases are escaping to fast to provide much heat? This is a guess, how large are the openings to the forge? -
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Re: Building a forge
03/15I agree with Troy, Two burners going into that tiny space could blow right through. I also think that the 'swirl' factor inside the forge chamber is way over-rated. If your burners enter the forge space on the tangent then the flame is going to swirl itself right through without much heat transfer.
Some of the best forges I have used have burners that blow straight onto the floor of a rectangular chamber. If you've got access to some firebricks you could try a couple of experimental chambers with the burners that you've got (or you could use them to reduce the openings of the forge.)
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Re: Building a forge
03/18openings at both ends for long stock, but plug the end not being used with two layers of the same 1" kaowool. the smaller opening i have been using is 3 3/4" by 3 1/2" with a door that slides down to whatever height. i varied the opening to see if it made a difference, tried opening the other end, still not much of an improvement unless i really crank up the psi.
fciron: my burners are at a 2" angle from top center, so theres decent spreading inside the chamber. i read theres also a heat issue when straight on top, soaks up into the burners effecting the flow... or something. -
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Re: Building a forge
03/19Did you build the forge or buy it?
If you bought it, I'd contact the manufacturer and ask them. -
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Re: Building a forge
04/02built it, and tried a leaner mix.
thanks everyone, im going to try oxy soon. -
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Re: Building a forge
04/07just a note: i uploaded the pic of flame characteristics from my personal archives, but forgot the orig source.
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Re: Building a forge
02/28Hey Wes,
Go check out www.iforgeiron.com/.
Great bunch of folks there and a HUGE blueprint section for getting plans to make just about anything blacksmithing related.
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Re: Building a forge
10/13There are several instructions on Anvilfire.com but I can't say how good they are as I've never tried any of them.
BTW what type of forge are you thinking about building, gas or coal?
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